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Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 11:06:   

I have history of long and irregular cycles. I stopped birth control pills nearly 3 years ago and haven't been able to normalize my mestrual cycle after that. My cycles are between 30 to over 100 days long.

MD has told me that my ovaries are "polycystics like" but don't actually have PCOS as I'm thin. I also have mild endometriosis. I've been treated by acupuncture for endometriosis but it hasn't helped to shorten my cycles at all. Now we are looking for a way to treat those long cycles that probably are related to pco, but my acupucturist has not much of acknowledge of PCO at all.

Where could we find more information? And is there something we should pay attention to when balancing my cycle and trying to ease symptoms of PCO? Or is the treatment kind of same than the treatment for endometriosis?

We are kind of lost as I seem to be totally fine otherwise (tongue looks good, pulse is fine etc) but my cycles are really long and unpredictible. Can anyone help us to figure this one out?
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Shmuel Halevi
Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 12:24:   

Hello anonymous. There is plenty of professional material regarding your problem, and there is definitely no reason for your practitioner not to know how to treat you. In fact, balancing the cycle is quite easy and very responsive to either acupuncture and/or Ch. herbs. Also PCO is extremely responsive to acupuncture and, in fact, most cases may be resolved by acupuncture alone. It is quite likely that the whole problem (endometriosis + PCO) was caused because of the use of the pill. Your practitioner has probably explained to you why in terms of Ch. physiology concepts. Also, there is no point to rely only on the pulse or tongue manifestations, especially when your practitioner can not find abnormalities with those. There are other diagnostic tools in Ch. med that can shed light on your diagnosis in terms of Ch. med.
In light of what I have said above, I can only recommend that you try to take advice from another Ch. med practitioner who is better trained or more experienced in gynecological problems than you present one. If you have further questions, please put them forward.
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Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 13:02:   

Thank you for your response.

Where I live I have actually not much to choose from when it comes to Ch. med practitioners. And I must say I really like the person who's treating me at the moment and she's very willing to learn more about gynecological problems. So, I'll still give her some more time to figure this out.

To my opinion my case is just not very easy one and I really don't see any other option for me at the moment but acupuncture. But this all is quite confusing to me as I don't know much of it myself.

My symptoms seem to change quite often when it comes to coldness and warmth. And overall it feels like my body is trying to get to the balance in every way but while trying it just goes from one end to the other. This is just so frustrating.
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Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 03:35:   

Yes, I think that even without knowledge of PCO, your acupuncturist should be able to treat you based on a Ch. Med. differentiation quite successfully. With respect to Dr. Halevi, I have better success using herbs, but then I have more of a background with herbal medicine than acupuncture for gynae. AS for differentiating your case, that can be done based on the length of your cycle, (just the fact that they are irregular is significant) the nature of your menses, emotional lability before during or after menses etc etc. Just the fact that you were on COC pill for years helps to guide the diagnosis, cold and warmth doesnt need to guide the diagnosis quite so much.
Endometriosis is actually quite easy to differentiate with TCM, theres really not that great a variety of possible differentiations.
There is a wealth of good material available on TCM Gynae, in English, Bob Flaws and Giovanni Macioccia have some good texts. Tell your practitioner to get learning!
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Carl Paschal
Posted on Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 11:39:   

Hello, My wife has a history of poly cystics and had a rather large tumor removed from her ovaries as a teen and now 30 has been compaining of high pain levels and cramping when she does have a menstration and those have become VERY erratic this past year. She hasnt gone to the MD to get chesked out for fear of causing a preexisting med condition to keep ins from covering her later... My business is at least 4 weeks from having her covered. Up til yesterday I thought she could make it til we got her covered with ins. I cant really say how much she's bled this past 36 hours. I almost took her to the emergency room yesterday. I can say she's doing better today and we've been thru some really tough menstrations in the past 3 yrs together but I am SO WORRIED that I'm going to take her to a MD monday or the emregency room one or the other. I found this thread and was hoping to not so much get "med advice" but a direction to start looking at for a gyno? or MD? I can feel a major tumor in her abdomen on "Probably" both sides of her ovaries. I will continue to search on thru the night and attend church tomm as planned with our family. I pray that I have not let her put it off too long. Thanks & God Bless, Carl
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Shmuel Halevi
Posted on Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 21:00:   

Dear Carl,
I suggest that you take her to a gynecologist real fast, even before you go to church. If you have further question AFTER you get a proper diagnosis, do not hesitate to come back to the forum.
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Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 21:16:   

What acu points would give relief to ammenorrhoea(PCO and endometriosis?). The symptoms are ammenorrhoea, very little flow, intolerence to cold, hairy(hirsute), loss of appetite. kindly advise.
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Shmuel Halevi
Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 11:57:   

There are plenty of acupoints that can treat amenorrhea successfully, for this simply run a search command in the Acupoints Database on my homepage. Yet, without a clear Ch. med diagnosis and the use of appropriate handling of the needles according to that diagnosis, it is very unlikely to get any significant clinical results.
From the meager data that you have provided dear India, ti seems that your patient suffers from blood stasis on the basis of deficiency cold affecting both spleen and kidney yang Qi. There is likely to be an involvement of the Chong/Ren channels as well.
Thus, if you choose points that encourage blood flow in the uterus such as: Sp-6/ Ren-4/ Ren-6 = all with moxa, along with secondary points such as: B-17 even manipulation, B-20 moxa, B-23, Du-4 etc., this may meet your patient's needs. Now, if the blood stasis is predominant over the deficiency pattern, you may also recruit St-29 and 30, Sp-8 and many more.
Hope you find this helpful.
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Username: Mika

Registered: N/A
Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 14:35:   

Kindly advise.

A 29 yrs old unmarried lady with a history of Amenorrhea for the last 6 years. Diagnosed as mild PCOS on both the ovaries. Very lean built.

Dryness in the throat, skin, Hirsute, frequent loss of appetite, weak knees and back.
Intolerance to cold and and breeze. Frequents caughs and colds.Occasional bloating and acidity.

Only bleeds a lot of blood on inducing periods. Means the endometrium layer is not thickening? Lot of clots observed during periods.

Treated with Sp 6, St36, B23, (all the three points with electro acupuncture); REN4, REN2, REN3, B20, B18, LI4, LI11, DU20.

After having periods, feels very lethargic, complains of low backache, at times have palpitation.

Kindly tell me if these symptoms pertain to Kidney Qi, blood stagnation or blood stasis.

Also kindly let me know how should it be treated.
1. Are the above points ok?
2. What should be the ideal duration of treatment?
3. When should the treatment begin? ( Is it on the 14 day after having periods for 5 days and wait for 15 days to induce periods?)
4. For how many cycles should the treatment be continued?
5. Please let me know how to restore the periods back to normalcy with the thickening of the endometrium layer?
6. Is there any other method to be followed?

Also there is a problem of onset of periods. Inspite of having the harmonal activity like tenderness in the breast etc. onset of periods is delayed. For instance, only a few spottings are observed on the first two days then the bleeding happens. Is it the lack of or weak Wind energy? How should this be treated?
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Shmuel Halevi
Posted on Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 12:17:   

Hi Mika. You have not included pulse and tongue observations but nevertheless, the case appears as a K. Yang deficiency as the basic syndrome. K Yang, in time, may progress also to Yin deficiency, as some of the symptoms show, but mainly to blood stasis ans Sp Yang deficiency. There is an evident blood stasis pattern in the uterus as evidenced by the PCO, amenorrhea, and the rest of the uteral symptoms. Aversion to cold, weak knees and back and bloating after meals point to a Sp Yang Xu in continuum with the K Yang problem.
In view of this diagnosis, your treatment must change accordingly. Use plenty of moxa on the abdominal points instead of electricity, and also on B-20/ Du-4 and B-31-34.
Use reduction needling on Sp-6/ Sp-9 or 8 and St-29/ Ren-3 and occasionally Sp-10.
If you are familiar with herbal therapy I suggest that you choose an appropriate formula for her in addition to acupuncture.

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