San Jiao the REAL one? Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Edit Profile

AcuMedico-Forum » Other sub-topics/threads » San Jiao the REAL one? « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Phil Macqueen
Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 22:43:   

Who hasnt wondered about the San Jiao!
What which where?
Lets cut to the chase.
I believe the San Jiao alias the Three Heater alias the Triple Burner is the THYROID. The abbreviation even says it for us..TH
I take the pulse (proximal Right), as Thryoid (deep) and Adrenals (superficial) not San Jiao and Pericardium.
Try it and see how your patients symptoms start to make sense using this pulse pattern.
So you can have a patient who's been overworking for a short time and is exhausted and has weak Adrenals BUT good Ki Pulse energy. This is a good prognosis. But if the Ki pulse is less than 'flash' (good in Australian) the prognosis is less rosy for a quick recovery.

Another bit of Heresy!!!?
When I learnt the back Shu points (from Dr. Van Buren,1979) I could'nt figure out what the top two related to ie Bones (Bl.11) Coughs and Colds (Bl.12) Lungs is obvious(Bl.13)
I now know (by deduction) that Bones relate to the Parathyroid gland and its role in Calcium metabolism and guess what the Coughs and Colds relate to? The Thymus!!(produces activated lymphocytes!)
Gov 14 tonifies all Yang? Yes. Why? Because it influences the THyroid.
This all makes sense to me and I have used this theory for many years
Look forward to hearing back from folks with comments

Phil Macqueen in Brisbane Australia.}}
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Shmuel Halevi
Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 14:45:   

Very interesting your point of view Phil and, I might add quite original too. I can't say that I have heard this theory elsewhere. Nevertheless, I can't say that I agree to such a classification or attributions, nor that it can help very much with our work as Ch. doctors, in my opinion. Assignment of Western medical concepts, organs, functions etc. to Chinese based theories and diagnostic procerdures is very artificial and, I think, only limiting our way of thinking rather than broadening it.
Ch. med does not bother much with organs the way Wes. med. does, nor with anatomy or chemicals such as hormones and vitamines. Ch. med. is about energy and energetical functioning of organs and mechanisms in our body. Trying to impose our modern day knowledge on an entirely different doctrine can only confuse us and shift our attention from our real job. I have more than often witnessed Western doctors trying to apply acupuncture based on their modern dignoses, I can't say that I have ever been impreseed with their clinical results... The fact that the Chinese did not mention the thyroid or adrenals in the Nei Jing, does not mean that we lack the option to treat these disorders effectively by Ch. med. Do we have to puncture Bl-11 in order to affect the parathyroid in order to enhance bone metabolism? I think not. We would rather puncture B-23 of the kidney because the kidney is the dominator of the skeleton and bones. Do we treat kidney points in order to treat kidney disease? Not necessarily... we, most often, treat spleen points more effectively for that reason. Also the Chinese, while attributing the Cun pulse to the lung or the Chi pulse to the kidney, they do not necessarily refer to an organ, rather to an entity or a conglomerate of functions. So why take a specific pulse location and assign it to a specific gland or, take a beautiful FU such as the San Jiao and rape it into a thyroid gland... it is much more and beyond that.
In any event Phil, I join you in hope that more practitioners will join-in in this beautiful discussion and contribute their ideas and views.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 00:30:   

Very good reply Dr. Halevi. In particular, after studying the Shang Han Lun (you need a good teacher!), which centres often around the many and various functions of the San Jiao, I was a little put off by an attempt to marginalize such a complex and logically consistant entity as the San Jiao by trying to, needlessly ascribe a western medicine organ or function to it. It was however an interesting discussion and idea and provoked much thought. In first year Chinese Medicine theory I was taught that the strength of TCM is that you can always differentiate a disease with TCM theory, but the downside is that you cant treat a disease in TCM without a differentiation, however the strength in WM is that you dont need a diagnosis to go ahead and start treatment (eg prescription of a/bios when a patient is seriously ill and the lab results havent got back yet) actually, that may not have been the best example, Id rather not get into a heated debate about the overprescription of anti biotics.
I think too that it helps to keep in mind to that in WM terms, the functions of organs and especially the endocrine system is still being discovered and broadened upon.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Phil Macqueen
Posted on Monday, March 28, 2005 - 23:12:   

Nonetheless Shmeul I have found that the concept of the Three heater has more meaning when I look at the many functions of the Thyroid. Especially when calibrated against the pulse.
I can look at the TH pulse on a patient and if its weak, ask all the Thyroid questions and get a big level of agreement. I can then say "Your thyroid need some attention" and they say WOW! how do you know that??
If I said, "Your Three Heater needs some attention" they would say "Yawn" (Pun intended) and I would have to spend 1/2 hour explaining it all to them.
Can be useful.
Also in prognosis, I have found if the (my) Adrenals pulse is weak (TCM Pericardium) and the Kid pulse is strong the prognosis is good for a speedy recovery.
But if both are weak it will take longer.
What is "circulation/sex"? The description I learnt of the Pericardium.
It does not seem a particulary meaningful concept
To me the concept was / is a little vague.
Adrenals seem a a meatier concept!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Shmuel Halevi
Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 21:06:   

Well Phil, as long as these observations help you in your practice, I suppose there is no point in trying to convince you otherwise. I suppose that there might be truth in that, at least a partial truth. The San Jiao encompasses so many functions, both related to its meridian pathway and to the S.J. organ entity, that it is easy to find a little of everything in it. As for the pulse, this is another debate and will probably remain a debate. If you follow the line of S.De Morant and his adherers, you will try to find not only an organ but also anatomical sections of organs in each and every pulse. I, for one, am totally against this line of thought, and with all due respect I think that S.De Morant has performed a major rape of the Chinese pulse diagnosis doctrine, trying to either make it more popular to the western mind of his colleagues, or trying to figure out himself how to "happily marry" Chinese doctrine with modern anatomical knowledge. I still think that we must refer to the pulse as an indicator of the energetical environment of the organ/phase/element rather than as an antomical organ. Thus, if this is true in relation to the liver functioning, who is at all the thyroid... Now, if the heart pulse will be fast and thin and/or arrhythmic will it not be an indicator of hyperthyroidism when other signs and symptoms co-exist? Or, if kidney yang Xu shows itself in the pulse along with a pale tongue and other symptoms and signs, do we need to look for a specific pulse of the adrenals?

Add Your Message Here
Bold text Italics Underline Create a hyperlink Insert a clipart image

Username: Posting Information:
This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Options: Post as "Anonymous"
Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message